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Ingvar Angst
Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
|
Posted - 2011.08.19 11:52:00 -
[1]
Local is a crutch that people have become accustomed to relying on instead of other, more active tools. Bots depend on it for their insta-warp outs. Gank fleets rely on it to find easy prey, and to run away from real fights. Null-bunnies depend on it to know if it's "safe" to undock. If it's removed, or simply changed to a wormhole-type of system where you only appear if you use it, people will adapt. The game will change a little, bots will be a little easier to kill until they learn to use dscan... hell, everyone will have to learn to use dscan. When you see probes you'll actually have to make a decision to stay or go.
It would be come a more challenging, yet more beautiful place.
Monocles are so two weeks ago.
Sparkle ships are the future! |
Ingvar Angst
Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
|
Posted - 2011.08.19 12:36:00 -
[2]
Local has gone from being used as a tool to being used by tools. It's a drug addiction people are afraid to break. There are a variety of means of gathering intel without relying on the momma-bird of local regurgitating it directly into your crop.
CCP should experiment with a "local down for two weeks for preventive maintenance" period and see how it goes. Would be interesting...
Monocles are so two weeks ago.
Sparkle ships are the future! |
Ingvar Angst
Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
|
Posted - 2011.08.19 12:49:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Jaari Val'Dara Another hypothetical situation: 1. You are ratting in your ship, whatever it is. 2. Recon decloaks and bumps you. 3. Recon lights a covert cyno. 4. You are ****d by a black ops fleet.
You lose a ship and you had no chance to avoid this at any time. It would be fun for black ops, perhaps I would even fly my widow, but all the economic activities in null would halt.
Wow, I must have been doing it wrong back when I ratted. My ship was always moving, which would have made it harder for someone to decloak and bump right away. Of course, I'd still have to align and warp and hope I wasn't scrammed, but hey, that's like life in wormholes. You never know when it's coming and hope you can stay alert enough to react when it does.
Monocles are so two weeks ago.
Sparkle ships are the future! |
Ingvar Angst
Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
|
Posted - 2011.08.19 13:44:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Jaari Val'Dara Stabs? Lol. That would seriously reduce dps and also isk/h.Cans? Good luck with that if you are moving. Asteroids? I'd hate to get stuck on one if I have to warp off. D-scan? I did that while living in a wh, but it's maddening.
I think the bolded part shows where the real problem lies, and it's not the fault of local, afk cloaking, whatever.
You don't want to adapt. You want easy comfort mode, in null sec.
Monocles are so two weeks ago.
Sparkle ships are the future! |
Ingvar Angst
Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
|
Posted - 2011.08.19 18:24:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Ingvar Angst on 19/08/2011 18:26:47
Originally by: Tali Arayla Edited by: Tali Arayla on 19/08/2011 17:07:24 Been spending quite a bit of time in wh and spamming the dscan all the time does get annoying, if they added an automatic setting to the dscan which could do a sweep every 30 seconds I would be pleased. No real need to reinvent the wheel in this case.
It does? I hit it out of habit every 10 to 15 seconds at most and don't even realize I'm doing it anymore. Can be a pain when I'm in high sec and all those damnable wrecks show up...
... and who's the damned fool that thinks it's a good idea to give warnings if someone initiates warp to your grid?! What the hell, you want your bots to be uncatchable now? By the gods, please stop talking, you're leaking stupid on the carpet. |
Ingvar Angst
Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
|
Posted - 2011.08.24 12:03:00 -
[6]
You don't need to remove local... just have cloaked ships disappear from local. Hey, they're cloaked, they shouldn't be picked up by local in the first place.
To counter that being OP, have a 30 to 60 second delay in activating a cyno after decloaking, regardless of the cloak type. |
Ingvar Angst
Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
|
Posted - 2011.08.26 15:28:00 -
[7]
Remove the numbers of kills that occur due to gate camps in low/null sec, recalculate then report back.
Wormhole PvP is something you go looking for, not waiting for defenseless ships to happen to come across your gate camp.
Monocles are so two weeks ago.
Sparkle ships are the future! |
Ingvar Angst
Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
|
Posted - 2011.08.26 16:34:00 -
[8]
Have cloaked ships disappear from local and not be able to use local to see anyone else. Have Cynos on a 30 or 60 second delay after uncloaking.
It's now a better universe.
Monocles are so two weeks ago.
Sparkle ships are the future! |
Ingvar Angst
Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
|
Posted - 2011.08.29 17:01:00 -
[9]
This happened Saturday. In the static C2 (had a high hole, was using it) and notice near the hole on DScan there's a ship. OK, I'm in my scanner on this char, drop combats and get it to 100%, it's a destroyer salvaging a combat site he ran apparently in a different ship. OK, fine... warp over to go look at him for lulz (warp to 100). Warp there and cloak... he still hasn't noticed me.
Okay... get on my combat alt, fly into the static and warp to 20 off this guy in my drake. He's still toodling along, salvaging like I'm not there. More . Warp to a wreck he's approaching (was over 150K away), target, tackle and start firing... finally he starts trying to get away.
This should never have happened. This was a pilot in from high sec so reliant on local that even with me visible on the overview he didn't realize I was there. This is why local needs to go... it's dragging the intelligence of the community way, way down.
Monocles are so two weeks ago.
Sparkle ships are the future! |
Ingvar Angst
Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
|
Posted - 2011.08.29 17:57:00 -
[10]
Apparently, Caerain, it takes more intelligence than people are displaying. What happened Saturday should have been this...
Destroyer pilot <click> sees ship on DScan, and, not being fit for combat, warps to the hole and leaves. The End.
You're mocking user action required for intel. You want it all to be all warmed up and hand delivered in a nice sterile bottle for you to suckle on. The nice thing with DScan is that you learn to click it absent-mindedly and you're mind gets trained for "different" to show up on the scan result. You look at different, you see the different, you react. That's when you're sitting in one place doing some activity. You can also use it as an effective hunting tool to find PvP, especially if you have your covops going. You'll be able to find PvP opportunities that local completely denies you simply by giving away your presence.
Monocles are so two weeks ago.
Sparkle ships are the future! |
|
Ingvar Angst
Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
|
Posted - 2011.08.29 18:21:00 -
[11]
Of course it spoon feeds you all the intel. You click on the guy in local, you have his corp, alliance, kill boards, etc. You get a ton of free intel simply by having his name. You can see if he regularly kills in blobs, showing he may be bait. You can see if he's an industrial carebear without a kill to his name.
How can you claim to know anything at all about the game if you don't know this?
You also over-emphasize DScan regarding the game. It wouldn't be the defining part of the game, simply one of the primary intel gathering tools there for you to use or not (at your peril). Blobs show up on it. Single ships show up on it. However, if you want the rest of the free intel, you'd need to get off your duff and go earn it. Simple as that.
Eh... what question are you refering to?
Monocles are so two weeks ago.
Sparkle ships are the future! |
Ingvar Angst
Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
|
Posted - 2011.08.29 18:53:00 -
[12]
If clicking DScan is enough to hurt your finger you have more things to worry about than losing a ship in Eve.
It's surprising how many people couldn't cut it in a wormhole. It really is. You're missing a truly great Eve experience.
Monocles are so two weeks ago.
Sparkle ships are the future! |
Ingvar Angst
Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
|
Posted - 2011.08.29 19:29:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Cearain
Originally by: Ingvar Angst Of course it spoon feeds you all the intel. You click on the guy in local, you have his corp, alliance, kill boards, etc. You get a ton of free intel simply by having his name. You can see if he regularly kills in blobs, showing he may be bait. You can see if he's an industrial carebear without a kill to his name.
How can you claim to know anything at all about the game if you don't know this?
You also over-emphasize DScan regarding the game. It wouldn't be the defining part of the game, simply one of the primary intel gathering tools there for you to use or not (at your peril). Blobs show up on it. Single ships show up on it. However, if you want the rest of the free intel, you'd need to get off your duff and go earn it. Simple as that.
Eh... what question are you refering to?
We just play the game differently. I almost never even bother to see what corp the guy is in so long as he is a target. I simply see if the ship he is flying is within my engagment envelope. If it is I try to find him. If its not I move to the next system.
Local does not give you his killboard. Its true, you can, if you are very risk adverse and have lots of time, see the person in local, open up a browser and surf over to the killboard to try to search and study his killboard if you wish. I almost never look them up on the kill boards. Its usually not worth the time and it is a distracting hassle.
Basically I'm willing to take some risks in this game and just have fun.
Just because someone flew in a blob last time they were out doesn't mean they are doing that now. From local I do start to recognize people and if they are always in a blob. So if I get blobbed a few times I learn that way. Doing that of course means you use your rl intelligence and memory and experience. Instead of a button to push and leave the rest to dumb luck.
Also Its not that people canĘt "cut it" in a wormhole. ItĘs just that they like to use their head when they pvp instead of just hoping their blob is bigger than the other guys blob. They also donĘt like to waste time scanning down empty systems.
Why are you ignoring the questions I put to the anti-local crowd?
Like I said... spoon-fed intel. You don't want to do anything fo rit... just blindly fly from belt to belt until you find him. (Hint: Dscan can even speed that process up). Um... blobs in wormholes? Really? You really have no idea what you're talking about, do you? Dumb luck using DScan? You know it gives you all ships withing 14AU and you can use it to narrow down their location as well, right? You know, so you're not guessing what belt they're in using dumb luck? With local, you run around or run away. Without local, you hunt.
Monocles are so two weeks ago.
Sparkle ships are the future! |
Ingvar Angst
Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
|
Posted - 2011.08.29 19:51:00 -
[14]
Just FYI, I am, for the most part, a carebear. This is my main, and he's industrial. The combat alt is developing nicely though.
I still think the simplest solution of all and offers the best of all worlds...
1. When a ship cloaks, the disappear from local and, in exchange, cannot see local. You disappear but cannot see who's in local either. This allows a cloaked ship to truly be cloaked and also requires it to actively seek out intel if it wants to get any.
2. When you decloak there's a 30 to 60 second delay in lighting a cyno. This prevents the invisible person from dropping a fleet on top of someone before they have a chance to see you and respond.
Just these two changes could do wonders for null, imo, and best of all... nothing to break current wormhole mechanics.
Monocles are so two weeks ago.
Sparkle ships are the future! |
Ingvar Angst
Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
|
Posted - 2011.08.30 12:25:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Cearain
I suppose you think I should have to push a button. Is that the price I should pay? That seems to be the big concern. Players in eve are not required to do enough button mashing.
For intel? Yes, it should be actively acquired, not a free gift that allows you far too much knowledge for little to no effort.
Originally by: Cearain You should learn the game mechanics. Dscan does not show all ships within 14 au. It doesn't give you cloaked ships or ships that are cloaked due to jumping in from a gate.
Why must you pretend to tell everyone about how mechanics will boost or hurt pvp? I don't go in threads about industry and pretend to tell everyone what changes should be made there.
Also now I guess you can't answer the questions I posted for the anti-local group. I guess you want to pretend they aren't there. But it just makes you look bad. If you think about the questions I ask you will be able to tell no local will reduce the amount of pvp and increase the amount of blobbing in eve.
Of course it doesn't give you cloaked ships. They're cloaked. That's what cloaking does. Why should it give you cloaked ships? That's insane.
As for your questions, I'm pretty sure I answered them at least once and was ignored, but for argument's sake if you'd repeat them I'll have yet another crack at it.
Monocles are so two weeks ago.
Sparkle ships are the future! |
Ingvar Angst
Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
|
Posted - 2011.08.30 13:15:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Cearain Ok we are in a sci fi universe where we can travel faster than light but we have to constantly push a button for intel about what is in our system. Concord who runs the gates knows who is in the system and even if they have agressed before the timer is up but its impossible that they could share that info with other pilots??
No instead we have these ships with a big red button that you have to keep pushing in order to get any information about what is around you in space - constantly pushing that big red button. No one was ever even bright enough to put a rock on that big red button so that it would constantly stream information. Nope you have to keep pushing the button for intel. Does this make any sense to you?
You're in a spaceship with limited resources. Yes, you have to activate systems that consume power. You don't constantly burn resources when all you have is what's on your ship.
Originally by: Cearain
Then why did you say we see all ships within 14 au when we hit the dscan? We don't.
Is there anyone that doesn't already realize that cloaked ships don't show up on dscan? I assume basic intelligence as a rule.
Originally by: Cearain
For the sake of argument lets say I agree with many anti-local peoples claims: 1)removing local will increase the risk of engaging in pvp. (Specifically you will have an increased risk of getting blobbed.)
2)removing local will increase the chances of being able to gank a carebear that is in low or null sec.
What effect will this have?
Consider the first point. Do you think increasing the risk (especially the risk of getting blobbed) will make an already risk adverse group more likely to engage in that activity? Eve pvp is already hard enough to find. The problem is the playerbase is risk adverse as it is. Increasing the chances that you will lose your ship to a sensless blobbing will not increase the pvp.
Now consider the second point. Do you think this will drive more people to do missions/industry in low sec and null sec or fewer? Is it better to have more or fewer people in pvp areas of new eden?
Lets say you are going to make your isk in low sec or null sec anyway. You will now have to constantly click on your d scanner making it even more of a hassle to earn your isk. Are you going to value and protect that harder to earn isk more or less? If you are going to value and protect that harder to earn isk more are you more likely or less likely to engage in even higher risk pvp?
There's the problem. Your questions are based on assumptions you are presuming to be true. Those that disagree can't answer your questions because they're based on (what are seen as) falsehoods.
To be honest, I think things could be fixed nicely without removing local. Simply remove cloaked ships from local. When you cloak, your cloak also separates you from the communications grid. Additional side effect, the cloaked ship cannot see local either... they have to actively gather intel. No seeing who enters or leaves the system (unless you're cloaked at a gate). No free lunch... cloaking hides you much more effectively, with give and take. Finally, put a delay on the ability to activate a cyno when decloaking of 30 to 60 seconds. This prevents the "surprise" hot drop on an unsuspecting ship, allowing them time to react.
Cloaking should make you seen only when you want to be seen, but also hinder your ability to see.
Monocles are so two weeks ago.
Sparkle ships are the future! |
Ingvar Angst
Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
|
Posted - 2011.08.30 13:49:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Ingvar Angst on 30/08/2011 13:49:32
Originally by: Spumantii Edited by: Spumantii on 30/08/2011 13:45:55 Is it really this hard for you to imagine a *gasp* new dscan setting with auto scan ping every 5-10 seconds? Why the insistence on the status quo? We're talking about changes that would come not *just* to the local chat window, no? Like sov strategic upgrades that allow immediate local with level 5? Do you deny local the way it is makes it FAR too easy in an area of space supposed to be equated to frontier life? Even in the wild west there were scouts. Farmers still had to protect themselves. They didn't have bandit sensing radar systems with a 200 AU radius. Why the adamant refusal of the logic behind what is so obvious?? Null sec alliances that do all the carebearing ALSO do all the blobbing. Fair is fair. If their carebears can't handle a few simple steps to ensure their safety then they should get no sympathy when their blob size shrinks and all the risk averse people bail out to hi sec. You won't be missed, the more capable will replace you.
This is the only part I dislike... it nerfs the frontier aspect of wormholes. Free intel is for the weak. Possibly it could be limited to certain ships only, such as dedicated scanners, and have the drawback of making you exposed to everyone else in the system... but don't be nerfing my hole, bro.
Monocles are so two weeks ago.
Sparkle ships are the future! |
Ingvar Angst
Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
|
Posted - 2011.08.31 12:37:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Aelius And if i retract the "remove bounties from highsec" idea and only buff the null ones?! And remove ALL ABC from ALL the WHS?
I bet won't be ok by you, because no matter what ideas i trow to the table you just want your "all seeing eye" untouched in null. Right?!
You realize the "remove all ABC from holes", even C1 to C4, is a horrible idea that cripples T3 production, right? Just tossing that out there.
Monocles are so two weeks ago.
Sparkle ships are the future! |
Ingvar Angst
Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
|
Posted - 2011.08.31 12:52:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Aelius
Originally by: Ingvar Angst
Originally by: Aelius And if i retract the "remove bounties from highsec" idea and only buff the null ones?! And remove ALL ABC from ALL the WHS?
I bet won't be ok by you, because no matter what ideas i trow to the table you just want your "all seeing eye" untouched in null. Right?!
You realize the "remove all ABC from holes", even C1 to C4, is a horrible idea that cripples T3 production, right? Just tossing that out there.
It's just to make a point Ingvar. You could nerf the entire EVE space and 1000% buff nullsec and people would still want local, because its cuddly safe.
Oh, my apologies. I'm a little touchy with regards to people messing with my hole. That's a completely valid point. People want null to be as carebear as high sec without the sec status for when they feel like pretending their space-pirates.
Monocles are so two weeks ago.
Sparkle ships are the future! |
Ingvar Angst
Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
|
Posted - 2011.08.31 12:56:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Kity Kity
cuddle safe or not, people do seem to prefer it to stay. but, ccp could do something to please everyone's taste.
they could add an option to enable/disable the "local" in null sec, and each one would play as they like.
so, some that are keeping eyes in local could use it to see when a cloacky enters system or to look for friendly. and cloacky pawats could disable it to feel more challenged. it would be like playing in higher difficulty level.
so everywone would be happy.
Simplest tweak that would add the most to the game (my opinion, of course), I'll reiterate:
1. Cloaked ships disappear from local. You can't see them anymore, you don't know for sure if they're in system. 2. Cloaked ships lose access to local. They're cloaked, electronically cut off... they can't use local as an intel tool. They'll need to actively gather intel by other means if that's their goal. 3. Cynos get a 30 to 60 second delay before they can be activated when you decloak. Prevents the excessive advantage a cloaked ship not on local would have, allows some reaction time or a call for help.
Monocles are so two weeks ago.
Sparkle ships are the future! |
|
Ingvar Angst
Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
|
Posted - 2011.08.31 15:01:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Cearain But please keep posting your cool stories about how one time you entered a system, the mining barges docked up, and you were sad.
I have one of those! Our low hole went into a .1 system, forget the name, a long ways from empire. So I'm sitting there in my mighty magnate seeing assorted ships on DScan when someone says, in local, "Neut in system". The ships went away. Combat probes verified, no ships were in space, yet the people were still in local.
Imagine the panic if my magnate was actually armed? By the gods, I could defeat the Russians alone!
The problem is that local is no longer being used as a tool, it's being used by tools.
Monocles are so two weeks ago.
Sparkle ships are the future! |
Ingvar Angst
Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
|
Posted - 2011.08.31 15:03:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Cearain
Its actually mainly the three of you - spumatti, ingvar and yourself saying the same things that have already been disproven over and over. Not one of you addressed the questions I put to you, 3 times either. I guess you are afraid to think. IDK.
Denial does not equate to disproof, btw.
Monocles are so two weeks ago.
Sparkle ships are the future! |
Ingvar Angst
Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
|
Posted - 2011.08.31 15:17:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Ingvar Angst on 31/08/2011 15:35:32
Originally by: Cearain
1)removing local will increase the risk of engaging in pvp. (Specifically you will have an increased risk of getting blobbed.)
2)removing local will increase the chances of being able to gank a carebear that is in low or null sec.
Your questions are based on these assumptions. Assumption 1 is not true in and of itself. It's purely situational. If you're more aware of your surrounding, using the tools on hand for intel while engaging in your activities, you greatly reduce your risk of being blobbed. Assumption 2, same answer. Even carebear characters such as this one can avoid most unwelcomed PvP encounters simply by being aware and using the tools on hand. Questions based on these conditions being true are invalid.
One thing you're forgetting with (1) and the blob scenario is this... you're more likely to be missed by blobs as well. Blobs passing through your system, if you're out of dscan range of the gates, have a good chance to miss you as they pass through unless they specificaly stop to go out of the way looking for you.
Monocles are so two weeks ago.
Sparkle ships are the future! |
Ingvar Angst
Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
|
Posted - 2011.08.31 15:45:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Cearain
OK so you disagree that removing local will generally increase the risk of pvp?
Define risk. Do you mean the chance of PvP or the danger of engaging in PvP you were going to engage in anyhow? For the chance of PvP, it varies depending on the person. A person who's aware will have less chance in being jumped unaware simply because without local he needs to be hunted down and caught. A person less aware won't notice he's being hunted and will wind up a statistic.
Originally by: Cearain You disagree with the second assumption? Is local not a usefull tool that carebears use to avoid being ganked? If it is then removing it will if not make pve more dangerous it will at least make it more difficult right?
Removing it can make it more or less dangerous for the carebear depending on the carebear. If your blob enters a system and sees noone on dscan, that carebear ratting 30AU away has a much better chance of not being caught if the blob fails to actively check the whole system. If the blob checks properly and the carebear has learned to be aware, he still has a good chance to get away, and his heart will be poundign from the near-miss of seeing someone on dscan, warping to the station and seeing the blob on the way. If he's watching TV while mining and doesn't have a sudden group of people show up in local grabbing his attention, he's toast.
Monocles are so two weeks ago.
Sparkle ships are the future! |
Ingvar Angst
Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
|
Posted - 2011.08.31 15:49:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Signal11th I'd imagine that's because there's alot less people in wormholes and more often than not most people are s hit scared to go into a wormhole. I wouldn't say wh people are more intelligent but I would say they have more of a "tester" mentality.
I would, but there's reason to suspect that may not be a fully unbiased opinion.
Monocles are so two weeks ago.
Sparkle ships are the future! |
Ingvar Angst
Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
|
Posted - 2011.08.31 16:10:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Mendolus [ How are you going to find those fleets without the most simple of information that they are indeed in system? Probing results take time, hell it takes a good minute or two just to warp to a safe, uncloak, deploy probes, recloak, open starmap, position probes, set strength, and start scannning. With no local and so many stargates in most systems that hostile fleets can warp to at random, you would need a prober in every system or eyes on every input gate... good luck with that.
Unless they require people to scan down stargates to get in and out of 0.0 systems, there is no way removing local is going to increase the frequency of PvP.
Wormholes are like fish in a barrel, 0.0 systems are like swiss cheese.
Makes me wonder why that one covops that was watching that one entry gate didn't follow the fleet, discretely of course, to where the fleet headed and report back to everyone else while they organize.
Monocles are so two weeks ago.
Sparkle ships are the future! |
Ingvar Angst
Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
|
Posted - 2011.08.31 16:15:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Mendolus
Originally by: Ingvar Angst
Makes me wonder why that one covops that was watching that one entry gate didn't follow the fleet, discretely of course, to where the fleet headed and report back to everyone else while they organize.
Celestial clusters.
If you miss but you're still in the right area you can still use dscan to pinpoint them. If they're continually moving you're left with little choice but to wait at a gate anyhow.
Monocles are so two weeks ago.
Sparkle ships are the future! |
Ingvar Angst
Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
|
Posted - 2011.08.31 16:20:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Cearain As for the second point I think there would be more pvp in wormholes if it had local because it would be much more like low sec and null sec.
But again this is speculation. The only fact is that there is less than half the pvp per player in no local wormholes than in low sec and null sec.
You'd completely lose the "surprise!" PvP aspect... that jumping someone while they run a Sleeper site would be gone completely. You'd lose the rest simply because if someone jumped in your hole and saw they were outnumbered they'd leave, and if they jump in with a superior force you'd wait it out at your pos.
So no... local would effectively end most PvP in wormholes. Wormhole PvP is earned, actively sought and dependent on the awareness and wits of the players involved.
Monocles are so two weeks ago.
Sparkle ships are the future! |
Ingvar Angst
Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
|
Posted - 2011.08.31 16:26:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Ingvar Angst on 31/08/2011 16:26:29
Originally by: Cearain
Risk = losing your ship from a pvp encounter you didn't want. Lets say eiher you were looking for pvp and ended up getting blobbed, or you were pve fit and not looking for pvp at all.
Holy crap, are you serious? You don't want there to be a risk of losing a ship you don't want to lose... in null sec? Afraid you'll spill your Shirley Temple on your skirt? I... wow. Just wow.
Originally by: Cearain
As for the second part if you are in a blob with no local don't you think someone will have a probe launcher? How long does it take to check an entire system if you have a probe launcher?
More time then it takes to see the probes on dscan and get away.
Monocles are so two weeks ago.
Sparkle ships are the future! |
Ingvar Angst
Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
|
Posted - 2011.08.31 16:36:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Cearain
It might reduce the type of pvp you actually get in wormholes now. That is ganks where piloting skill makes no difference. But you would get allot more fun pvp that you see in low sec and null sec.
No, you wouldn't. You'd effectively eliminate it. It would solely be about who has more and who runs first. Local in wormholes would kill wormhole PvP. They'd turn into carebear dens. Might as well change the black hole effects to rainbow effects. Turn those Wolf-Rayets into Bunny Lovin's.
Monocles are so two weeks ago.
Sparkle ships are the future! |
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Ingvar Angst
Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
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Posted - 2011.08.31 17:32:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Cearain
Except we know that low sec and null sec have local and much more pvp. Probably not as much pvp against mining barges or destroyers with the high slots filled with salvagers, but overall more pvp.
Local's not the reason there's more pvp. Gates are. You want to fly through five or six systems looking for action, you go. Try to fly through five or six wormholes. How long's that going to take you?
Trying to credit local for something it actually discourages is disingenuous at best. Easy travel is why the population is so much larger, and the reason why PvP per person is higher.
Monocles are so two weeks ago.
Sparkle ships are the future! |
Ingvar Angst
Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
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Posted - 2011.09.01 13:15:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Cearain
There are allot of wormhole systems spread throughout New eden.
If no local made wormholes such a great place for pvp then people would be jumping into them and pvping.
It is not happening. That is not happening because Wormholes aren't a great place for pvp. They are good for ganking pvers or industrials but thats about it.
Actually, you're lying. It does happen, and quite often. You'll find many times when you finally get that nice hole into high sec you come back and someone from high is camped inside the hole for that very reason, quick, no rules PvP. The reason it's not statistically as prevalent is simply due to logistics. If you want to do this, you first need to take the time to scan a hole down. The system you're in in empire may or may not have a hole, and that hole may be in various states. If a hole's EoL, for example, you're not going to go in there looking for a fight when there's a higher risk of the door home closing behind you. You can also get in and find no one home, in which case it's not as simple as taking the next gate to the next system... you need to jump back to high, go to another system in your scanner, then scan down another hole, hope you find one, hope it's in good shape, then jump in and hope you find someone home. Also, many of the "allot of owrmhole systems" that you're referring to don't have holes into empire at all, or often their holes are opening into areas with very low population density. Holes that open into deep low or null tend to be visited less simply because no one's looking for them. So please, quit making crap up about wormholes. It's clear to anyone that the logistics of trying to do a wormhole roam makes it tremendously more difficult and simply hopping gate to gate through low or null.
Monocles are so two weeks ago.
Sparkle ships are the future! |
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